How To Keep Moving Forward In Uncertainty

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Taylor Pearson is author of the Amazon bestselling book — The End of Jobs. Entrepreneur Magazine called it one of The 7 Books Every Entrepreneur Should Read.

He is also the founder of GetApprenticeship, where he helps startups connect with A+ talents.

His work has been featured in dozens of media outlets including NBC, Inc, Entrepreneur, Coindesk, Ribbonfarm and The Financial Times.

Taylor’s forte is in personal productivity, mindset, and business operations.

In this episode, you’re going to learn how to keep moving forward even in uncertain times.

Here’s just what one of Taylor’s clients say about him:

The proof is in the pudding. He had his hands on the controls when the company grew 527% in 18 months.

If you’re lucky enough to be able to hire him, do so.

Dan Andrews
Co-Founder, Tropical MBA

Taylor has also been features in these media outlets:

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In this episode you’ll learn:

[01:34] The most common misconception about productivity

[03:34] How to find your courage

[05:27] How Taylor came to write the end of jobs

[10:27] Why Taylor wrote the book even though there are already other books out there on the same topic

[12:44] What life was like for Taylor before he was successful as he is now

[19:09] How to dare quit your job and start your own business

[22:56] The #1 Problem for people who can’t reach their goals

[26:14] The paradox of hard decisions and how to make one anyway even when in times of uncertainty

[29:10] How to boost your efficiency and productivity

[34:26] The #1 advice for people who want to build a successful business

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Quote

“Use courage and wisdom over complex endless planning to make things happen.”

~ Taylor Pearson

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Transcript

Interviewer (Welly Mulia): Welcome to another episode of the BirdSend Academy podcast, this is the show for online course creators who want to build a profitable business by sharing your skills and knowledge. This is your host Welly Mulia, if you are not listening to this on our website, go to academy.birdsend.co/2 to get your show notes.

Today’s special guest is Taylor Pearson, and Taylor is an entrepreneur and author of the Amazon best-selling books called ‘The End of Jobs’. Entrepreneurial magazine called it one of the best 7 books every entrepreneur should read. His work has been featured in dozens of media outlets including NBC, Inked, Entrepreneur Coindesk, Ribbon Farm and the Financial times.

A former Brazilian, super bowl champion, Taylor lives in Austin, Texas. Taylor, thank you for coming to the show and it’s great to have you here.

Interviewee (Taylor Pearson): I am excited to be here, and thanks for having me.

Welly Mulia: Cool. I know you are big on mindset and productivity; so can you tell us what you think is the most common misconception about that topic; productivity?

Taylor Pearson: Yeah, there is a quote I like from an author… and the line is, ‘use courage and wisdom to make money, not labor’, and I remember hearing it for the very first time, I thought about it for a couple of years, and some of my observation with a lot of productivity hacks, like how are we going to hack this? How are we going to build this hack? And ultimately, what I started to see for myself and for other people was that, the ultimate productivity hacks so to speak was basically courage, the example I always give is, when I was in high school, I had a crush on a girl, and like many people in high school, what you would do is, I would go and I would talk to her friends, and she liked me and I would to try to read whether or not she liked me… I spent months doing this. And the courageous thing to do which would have been much more productive is I should just walk up to her and say, hi, I think you are cool and I would like to go to the movies with you, whatever… and it would have taken two minutes, and that would have been more productive than the hours I spent trying to figure it out. So, I think that in my mind is sort of the big misconception with productivity, that ultimately boils down to how can I be more efficient just getting these tasks done and hacking them together as opposed to how can I be more courageous in what I am actually choosing to work on.

Welly Mulia: Okay, cool. So, wisdom and courage?

Taylor Pearson: That’s right.

Welly Mulia: Right. So, not a lot of people have that, I mean a lot of people that I know of usually doubt their believes and they seem to not have the courage, of whatever it is in their life, like you mentioned, opportunity to go for a date, or maybe in business itself as well. So, how do you go find the wisdom and courage that people need?

Taylor Pearson: I am not sure there is an easy answer. I think in terms of courage, one of the rule of thumbs that I come back to is from a book called ‘The War of Art’ by Steven Pressfield, which is a wonderful book, and in the book, he creates this idea that he calls ‘the resistance’, the resistance, sort of his name for that voice in the back of your head that goes, you are not good enough, or that other person is better than you, or you can’t lose weight on your diet, you’ll never lose weight, or you can’t succeed at this new product at work, you are not good enough, and you sort of get a name for this thing called the resistance, and I think everyone one at some given point in their lives can sort of feel where the resistance is, it’s what they are putting off doing. So, I think for me, what being courageous often looks like is, trying to figure out, where is that resistance, what’s the thing that I am sort of resisting doing because it’s scary, it’s like going out and talking to the girl or the boy and saying, I like you, do you want to go to the movies with me? I think, thinking about that idea of resistance and where that is in my life, and trying to lean into that as opposed to going around it or avoiding it, is often sort of where the courage comes from.

Welly Mulia: Okay, cool. I know that you have this best-selling book, ‘The End of Jobs’, that’s how I got to know you initially. I know you’ve sold tens of thousands of copies and translated it into almost a dozen languages. So, can you walk us through what the book is about?

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Taylor Pearson: Sure. So, the book really started… I worked for 2 years for an e-commerce startup, and I was originally from Memphis, Tennessee, which is sort of in the Western United States. I wouldn’t say I grew up in a very entrepreneurial world, none of my family was particularly an entrepreneur, I didn’t have friends, dad or mom that were business owners, and so sort of the whole idea of being an entrepreneur was kind of foreign to me, and I ended up working for the e-commerce company, and the founders of that company had sort of a big network of entrepreneurs, people running startups and small businesses, and I got to know them and they were running, for the most part, internet-based businesses, software companies, online media, publishing companies, e-commerce companies, things like that. And one of the things I sort of realized was that something pretty substantial had changed, relatively recently, part of what the internet made possible is that it sort of changed the dynamics of what entrepreneurship was and how it worked. So, one thing that happened was, you heard what I called, there is a book called the long tail, they credit all these new niches, industries, if you go on Amazon, you can buy laundry detergents for moms whose child have [inaudible 07:00] it is like very niche products, they just don’t work in sort of a physical retail based world, if you are stacking a Walmart in Mississippi or whatever, you need to be able to move a certain volume in that geographically enclose world. So, the other example I gave is, a woman who sells tarot cards, packs and how to do tarot cards, and it is hard to imagine most cities in the world having enough people that live within say 5 miles that you could open a tarot card shop, but someway on the internet, that works, and millions of other businesses like that works. So, there is sort of this big ‘blue ocean’ of this fast space of market potential that was just kind of untapped. And the other thing that was different about these internet businesses was, they were just pretty cheap to start, going back to if you were to open a store on Main street or wherever in your local city, you will have a lot of startup cost, for example, McDonald is a franchise restaurant, so they sell licenses to franchise to people, if you want to build and start a McDonalds, it is going to cost about 2 to 3 million dollars, that’s a lot of money, and if you can’t put up  million to 3 million dollars to start a business, but most internet-based businesses are much less expensive. If you are a software developer, all you really need is a laptop to start writing codes. If you want to start up an e-commerce company, the cost would come down dramatically, it used to be, say like the mid-2000, the company I worked for, we were the first companies that I know of that could do production runs in China for less than $100,000, usually we had $500,000 or a million dollars, like starting a McDonald’s franchise to get started, and now manufacturing technology has got better, voice technology, I have been able to talk to somebody on Skype as opposed to faxing back and forth. Product diagram has gotten much better, and you can start an e-commerce company now for a few thousand dollars as opposed to tens of thousands or hundreds of thousand dollars.

So, all of a sudden you have… there is a much lower cost entry, and in this huge, sort of untapped market… To me, what the book is about is the idea that all of a sudden has changed risk forward formula for entrepreneurship, that you don’t necessarily need to invest much money upfront, but you still have market potentials. So, the book is really sort of exploring that, and then talking about specific strategies that people can use to step into that world.

Welly Mulia: Okay, cool. So, what gave you the idea… you talked to us about how you noticed that with the internet, long tail and everything, business becomes super cheaper to build, especially online businesses where you can have a laptop and internet connection, maybe a phone, you can run a business. There are already topics talking about that at the time, I think you wrote a book, if I am not mistaken, you published the book in about 2015, is that correct?

Taylor Pearson: Yeah, that’s right.

Welly Mulia: So, I mean, there are already books about this topic, how you can build online businesses. What made you want to write a book about it?

Taylor Pearson: I think the list in my mind, I was sort of unsatisfied about the existing books, they didn’t explain why, I wanted to understand,  think one of the things I saw, working with a company as well as being with other people that were in that network was, I think a lot of the entrepreneurship books, it’s not a bad thing to say, let’s do that, it’s just sort of inspirational or very tactical like this is how you setup email marketing funnel and this is how you do optimization, those kind of stuff, and  I think they were helpful, and had their place, I think what was compelling to me, personally was this idea that it was sort of a mispriced asset if you will that people were just having this idea of what the opportunity was there, and it was a better opportunity that most people understood. So, I think sort of what was different about my book was a bit of, starting with the very macro perspective, looking at the economy, the bigger economy, and what that looks like, what that meant and why that was happening and then drawing from that down into okay, start why these things are happening, and how can you as an individual take advantage of that?

Welly Mulia: So, talk to us, what was your life before the book? You are a best-selling author now, and you work with people one-on-one, you coach people to have business startups and I also noticed that you have this portal, the way you connect people who are looking for jobs, like internships with startups who are looking to hire kind of like interns, correct?

Taylor Pearson: Yeah, that’s right.

Welly Mulia: So, now that you have your credentials right now. Talk to us, what was your life before all of this happened?

Taylor Pearson: Sure. As I mentioned, I grew up in [inaudible 13:18] I played football in college… like a premier school, third division school in Birmingham, Alabama and I studied History. I graduated around the time of the global financial crises in 2008, 2009, and as you can imagine, there were not a lot of people that were hiring History majors out of a no-name college in Birmingham, Alabama in 2008/2009. I was sort of exploring other options, I worked for about a year as a medical interpreter, I had a minor in Spanish, I spoke pretty good Spanish, so I did a freelance medical interpreting, then I got a job teaching English in Sao Paulo, Brazil, so I moved to Sao Paulo, I was living there and working there in an English school. I started listening to podcasts, I would teach classes in the morning, mostly teaching adults, I teach sort of before work and after work some kids. I teach from like 6 am to 9 am, and then I have classes from maybe 3 pm to 7pm in the afternoon. And in the middle of the day, I sort of listened to all these internet business podcasts, people talking about what is going on in my business, and how it worked, and at the time I wanted to travel, I wanted to live outside the US, and so starting an online business seemed like a pretty interesting way to do that. So I started teaching myself Search Engine Optimization, I built a handful of sites that were basically ads supported sites, about different types of kitchen remodeling, I was selling ads, where you can just enter Google’s code on your website and then you get paid for everyone that clicks on your ads. And I got a job offer from a marketing agency. I moved back to take that job, mostly because I wanted to learn more, I felt I could learn a lot faster working with the company and I could sort of do things on my own. I worked for that company for about a year, I got another job with e-commerce company, I mentioned to you, I worked with them for a couple years, and at that point, I felt like I had learned quite a lot, I had gotten to meet quite a lot of people, my network was a lot bigger as a result of working for those companies and just understanding about my business, how it worked, what to do, it had grown a lot, so at that point I felt a little bit of confidence to go out on my own and start doing freelancing. I was in marketing freelancing, mostly SEO marketing is my background, and during that first year that I was working for myself, I wrote ‘The End of the Jobs’ as a side project where I wake up for about an hour, earlier in the morning and I would just work on it for about an hour in the morning, and do my regular job for the rest of the day. And then it came out in 2015 as you mentioned, I did much better than I expected, I hoped if it would sell a thousand copies I would be happy and I was fortunate to end up selling a lot more than that, and it has opened up a lot of cool, new opportunities for me.

Welly Mulia: So, how did the next phase, after ‘End of Jobs’? What was the website where you connect the intern and people who are looking for interns?

Taylor Pearson: It’s called ‘Get Apprenticeship’, one of the ideas I talked about on ‘The End of Job’ is just this notion of apprenticeship, so when most people think of apprenticeship, it’s lesser in Europe, more so in the US, you think of the blacksmith in the middle ages, sort of this ancient thing, but the idea is you relatively simple, you come and you get a job, working for someone, they teach you their trade for a number of years, you learn trade internship and you startup on your own and do it. So, that was the pattern I saw both as myself and what a lot of other people who had been successful in online businesses, they had either formally or informally form of apprenticeship, they spent a few years working with someone, it was more to teach them some of the trade. So, the website you mentioned; ‘Get Apprenticeship’ is basically a matchmaking service trying to connect people looking for apprentice positions with internet-based businesses and startups that are looking to hire.

Welly Mulia: So, these interns, are they getting paid? Or is there like, I am working for free in exchange for experience?

Taylor Pearson: Yeah, they are jobs, you get paid.

Welly Mulia: Okay.

Taylor Pearson: They are entry level jobs.

Welly Mulia: Okay, and then as the owner of the platform ‘Get Apprenticeship’, you would get a fee from the companies?

Taylor Pearson: That’s right. So, we charge a fee, a listing fee to advertise, and then we also have a matchmaking service where companies can pay us, to not just post their job posts, but we will promote it to our database and to some other external sites and will help them filter candidates and screen candidates for them.

Welly Mulia: Okay. So, just like when you were mentioning that you were working, and then after that you were freelancing. What gave you the courage to quit your job and then start freelancing? Were you doing it kind of part-time before you actually quit and then you got to a point where you already have your clients, and then you quit your job? How does that work?

Taylor Pearson: Part of the reason the job ended was, the company I was working for was in the process of being sold and I sort of knew the job was going away, at least it was going to change dramatically. So, I think that was certainly part of it, as I mentioned, as a result of working for that company, I had been pretty actively sort of building my network, I had started a personal blog, which I still operate, but at the time, mostly talking about marketing and case studies and how to build a reputation within my personal network as being someone that knew what they were doing and someone who had experience and people wanted to work with. When I left the position, the first few clients were people that I knew, that trusted me, that I felt like I could start with pretty quickly, and also, I had some money saved up and I just sort of said, I am going to try this, and if it doesn’t work, by the time I burn through this much money, I’ll just go get another job, and I felt at that point pretty confident that if I wanted to get another job doing the same thing I was doing, I could find another job.

Welly Mulia: Okay, cool. The reason why I asked is because a lot of listeners are in the position that… this podcast show is for online course creators, and not all of them are into this full-time, some are even starting new and a lot of them already have their day jobs, so with your courage, you have the confidence to know that you have a few clients that you can take with you, if not then, you have these abilities that you can just go out to look for another job so that’s the reason why I asked you because I want to inspire all the other listeners who are still having a day job and maybe they are trying to start this online course business, then they can start part-time, and then transition from there, so that’s why I asked you the question.

Taylor Pearson: The example I always often give, I talked about in the book, I call it ‘Stair Stepping’. I think what’s different about all of these online businesses, like online courses, is you can get started, you can start it part-time, you can start it relatively and extensively. If you want to setup an online course and even if you only get 5 students in your first year, and you are just doing it on Saturday mornings or whatever, that’s something you can do, it’s not like you are sort of opening a piece of real estate where you are paying $3,000 a month to have the store and it really has to work. So, I think it’s a lot more feasible to start small and build up. At least for me, I was fairly active as a blogger, and for about 2 years, and that was my side gig, I would work on that on the weekends, in between my jobs and that sort of gave me a platform, for someone to book, to get clients after I ended up leaving.

Welly Mulia: So, what do you think is the number one problem for people who cannot seem to reach their goals?

Taylor Pearson: Yeah it’s a good question. I think these things depend on the individual, I think some of the common issues I see is like a lack of definition, often the goal is vaguely defined, one of my rule of thumb is, can you bring this goal down into task? Of course, it can be done in an hour or less, and get it more defined and say, okay, I want to start a successful business, okay, can we unpack that into 1-hour task and then quit thinking about how do we just get those tasks done, so I think a lot of times it gets nebulous and it seems like a big thing and people are slow to get started, so unpacking it defining it more clearly and breaking it down makes a big difference. And I think the other thing for me is what I call ‘Speed of Implementation” that a lot of people that I see that are successful, as entrepreneurs, freelancers, are very quick at sort of going from, I have an idea, to I have launched this idea in the world. I am a big Twitter user and in some way, Twitter is kind of a cool example of that, I am thinking of something, walking into the gym on Tuesday and I can open my phone and I can put it on Twitter and then I can implement and get that thought out into the world pretty quickly. So, I think that’s another big component I see that is sort of a common thing.

Welly Mulia: So, speed of implementation, interesting. And you mentioned you can put your thoughts into Twitter. So, you ask people about your idea on Twitter or you just phrase it as a question or are you just posting your thoughts to get feedback?

Taylor Pearson: Just posting thoughts, I think it’s an example, I think what happens to a lot of people and certainly still happens to me, that I try to work on is, coming back to this sort of idea, like you have an idea, I don’t know if it is going to be good, I don’t know if it is going to work, I don’t know how it is going to go, and you spend 2 hours thinking about this thing, that you probably could have actually done in like 15 minutes. So just doing the thing, and then figuring out later if it works. In most cases, it’s a lot better if you are dealing with… especially if you are running a nuclear power plant, sure you can’t do that, but if you are running a software company or you are building an online course or you are tweeting, I have got a lot of dumb tweets that I have done over the years and it doesn’t really matter, and no one cares, they sort of disappear into the heat of Twitter or whatever. But sort of building that muscle, of going to implement quickly, I think cumulatively ends up making a pretty big difference.

Welly Mulia: And then, your first point about the lack of definition, which is being vague, you mentioned about breaking down into specific tasks that you have to do. A lot of people, especially online businesses, they have a lot of things in their minds as you probably have heard about information overload. So, they read this blog post or they attend this webinar, or they listen to this podcast, and everyone is saying different conflicting things. So, how can one know how to break the task down into a specific task? I mean, which is the best way to go, because different experts give different advice. So, how do you know which one to follow to define that, okay, I have to do this and this to reach my goals. What is your take on that?

Taylor Pearson: I think generally, there are sort of paradox of hard decisions, I have been thinking about this lately, and I think decisions are hard a lot of times, because the different choices are indistinguishable tasks, so if you think about this, you have one amazing job offer and 2 bad offers, it not that difficult of a decision, you just take the one amazing job offer. If you have 3 amazing job offers, it becomes like a really difficult, agonizing decision, because they all look amazing. So I think a lot of times, you read this course, read this blogpost, you watch this webinar, you go to this podcast and they all three seem like reasonably good ideas, either one is a reasonably good ideas and it doesn’t matter which one you implement because they all work about the same. Or two, you still don’t have enough knowledge about it yet, to figure out which is the best way. And I think, the best way to get that knowledge is only to pick one of them, and do them even if it’s not the right thing, and then you can look back and letting go, now that I have done this; I learned X, Y and Z didn’t work, and A, B and C did, maybe I should do more of A, B and C and less of X, Y and Z.

Welly Mulia: Cool, I like that. Because many times we cannot see too far into the future, it’s always good to have long term goals, but a lot of times, when it comes to doing things, just like you said, pick one and then it would lead to other things that we previously didn’t think about, and previously thought it was impossible, but after doing these things then things get clearer, I like that. What is your advice for people who want to boost their efficiency and productivity? Since this is a business podcast, so in terms of their business, how can one boost their efficiency and productivity so that they get the most things done, in a lesser amount of time?

Taylor Pearson: Sure. I think we talked a little bit about courage and resistance, and the idea of allaying resistance. I will speak a little bit about the idea of wisdom, or what you might call work smarter and not harder, it is often one of the phrases that gets tossed around. I guess one technique that I have found helpful and I have talked to a lot of people about, and it seems to be genuinely helpful, it’s what I call ‘Time Blocking’ or ‘Time Chunking’. So, there is an essay from a writer I like, Paul Graham, he calls it ‘Makers and Managers Schedules”. So, maker schedule, this is someone, it could be an artist painting a piece of art, it could be a developer writing a piece of code, it could someone building an online course, it could be someone writing a blogpost, you typically need sort of these big uninterrupted blocks of time, like 2, 3 or 4 hours, to just sit down and work on the thing. And managerial work, taking meetings, entering e-mails, program and every 30-minute block or an hour block, instead of switching between things. And sort of the idea here is, there is a task switching course, if you go from working on your detergent business, to doing accounting for some other business, sort of like a load up of mental ram if what is going on, you can exchange, you can sort of group like projects together, into blocks at a time, I think that’s much better, I think what that looks like for most people is, looking at your day, and breaking it up into blocks of time, there is 9 am to noon, and you take a break for lunch, then there is 1 pm to 4 pm, and you go for a walk and then there is 5 pm to 7pm, or something like that. And figuring out like, how can I sort of group and chunk things together.

Welly Mulia: Okay. So, maker is where you have to spend the time to do a lot of creative tasks like you said. What is the manager?

Taylor Pearson: The manager is, if you think of what does a middle manager role do in most large companies right there, at meetings, they are entering a lot of emails, they are doing these sort of smaller tasks, you can answer email for 30 minutes, you can open an email, pick the first message and start going, if you wanted to write a bigger sort of creative project, you want to write a code, you want to write a blogpost, you want to outline your course, it’s hard to do that in like 15 minutes or 30 minutes chunks, because you truly have to think about it, load up all the mental ram, and so you end up getting a lot less done, but if you say, a 3-hour block dedicated as opposed to six 30-minute blocks, where you are just trying to do just little pieces at a time, so figuring out what those big maker tasks are, and blocking out bigger times for those, and then fitting the manager work, into the cracks. The kind of metaphor I think about it, imagine you have a jar sitting on a table, and next to the jar, you’ve got a bowl of sand and a bowl of pebbles, and a bowl of rocks. So, if you start with putting the sand in, it involves all the little tiny things and then you out the pebbles in, there is not enough room left in the jar for the rocks. But if you start with the rocks, the big things, and you put them in the jar first, then you put the pebbles in, the pebbles will fall around the rocks into the empty space, and then you put the sand in, the sand falls around the pebbles into the empty space. And you will be able to fit everything into the jar.

Welly Mulia: Alright, that’s very smart, and I like that analogy. So, the sand is basically those little, unimportant things that need to be done in the business, that are not that important, but you need to get it done in other to have the business to continue, right?

Taylor Pearson: That’s right.

Welly Mulia: Okay, cool. So, basically when you say separate your time into chunks and then you spend for example 3 hours on a maker stuff, and does that mean that within these 3 hours you don’t get interrupted, because you know, now, everyone is ADD, and then they keep checking their phones, or maybe go to social media to check if someone has liked their post. So, are you saying that if we block out say, 3 hours to write this article, then don’t do anything else?

Taylor Pearson: That’s right.

Welly Mulia: Okay, cool. So, if you can only give one advice to people who want to build a successful business, what would that be?

Taylor Pearson: I guess the thing I wish somebody told me was, pick something you want to spend at least a few years of your life working on. Most businesses, they atimes don’t come after 1 year, 2 years, 3 years they come after, 5 years or 7 years or 10 years. So, thinking about what’s something you care enough about, something you could see yourself spending 3, 5, 7, 10, 15 or 20 years on. It’s a good sort of rule that most businesses don’t do well at first, sort of a very slow start, and then the returns come along the line, you want to make it is something that you care enough about to stick with for a long time.

Welly Mulia: Okay, cool. One more question about your answer to that question. So, someone sticks around for 10 years, 20 years or whatever length of time, it’s a long time, how can they see that this is something that… they are passionate about the subject, but how can they see that this would be something that’s profitable financial-wise because running a business, you need money to sustain the business. What would you say about that?

Taylor Pearson: Yes, I think there’s other criteria you would want to apply, I think that’s often the most overlooked one, which is why I brought it up. But certainly if you get 6 months into the business, I think it’s clear that no one wants your product, you may run an online course about how to use saline eye drops and no one really wants to learn about how you use saline eye drops, then obviously you are going to have to rethink that. Most people think about that, is this going to work, will people buy this thing? And I think offering discounts, do I care enough about this thing to stay focused on it for a decade?

Welly Mulia: Alright, cool. Last question. Mindset and Tactics; which one do you think plays a bigger role in the success of one’s business?

Taylor Pearson:  I think they feed off each other. Often going back to solve the idea of speed of implementation, implementing the tactics quickly, even without knowing where it is going to go, or exactly how it is going to plan out, sort of the self-fulfilling prophecy, it can just end up working out, a certain type of serendipity or persistence. So, I think the common misconception between them is, I’ll just fix my mindset first and I will go do the thing, I think more frequently, what happens is you just say, I am going to just start doing the thing even though I don’t have that much confidence in myself, I am not sure if it is any good, I am not sure if anyone will like it, and then just able to build confidence overtime.

Welly Mulia: Okay, cool. So Taylor, if listeners want to get to know, how can they get in touch with you?

Taylor Pearson: My website is taylorpearson.me, you can go there, I have a newsletter if you want to sign up and the easiest way to reach me is on Twitter, I am on Twitter; @taylorpearsonme.

Welly Mulia: Alright, cool. So, thank you again Taylor for sharing your experience and skills, I am sure this is very good advice for the listeners out there.

Taylor Pearson: Yeah, thank you for having me, and thank you everyone for listening, I really appreciate it.

Welly Mulia: If you are not listening to this on our website, go to academy.birdsend.co/2 to get your show notes.

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Taylor Pearson On Productivity 

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